HANNAH LORENZO, HOST:
Yesterday, President Trump declared himself king of New York City for canceling congestion pricing. The order came from the U.S. Transportation Secretary Sean P. Duffy but it is unclear if the cancellation is legal. I spoke with Justin Balik, a former director of the New York City Department of Transportation who negotiated the 2019 agreement establishing the congestion pricing program, to break down whether or not Secretary Duffy has the authority to shut it down.
JUSTIN BALIK: He is trying to revoke the value pricing pilot program agreement that the state of New York, the city of New York, and the MTA and the federal government all signed last year. And that is a program that was created by Congress. It’s longstanding with the explicit purpose of providing states and localities with the authority to implement innovative tolling policies to relieve traffic congestion, which is exactly what congestion pricing is designed to do.
LORENZO: So I'm curious. What is the legality of all this? Do they really have any power to actually step in, even if it's not as much as they say they are?
BALIK: So from our perspective and from talking with folks in the legal community, they do not have a lot to stand on when they're saying that they're going to unilaterally terminate this agreement.
LORENZO: Also related to the statement from yesterday. If you could also explain a bit further of your thoughts on the part of the statement where the secretary says they're terminating the pilot because the program was meant to impose tolls for congestion reduction rather than transit revenue generation?
BALIK: It’s important to go back and look at the law that established this program as part of the New York state budget in 2019. In state law, it is very clear that that program has twin goals of congestion relief and investment in mass transit. That's entirely appropriate. And it’s already accomplishing the congestion relief that was the stated policy goal in state law and as part of the value pricing program is what the state and the MTA and the City of New York are supposed to be working towards. We’re already seeing those results clearly.
LORENZO: I was curious about how this compared to when you were Director of State Legislation for the Department of Transportation in New York City, and you were also negotiating on the first U.S. congestion pricing program for New York. Are there changes in the ways that this is being approached, or just in the ways that the Trump administration has responded to it now?
BALIK: It's mainly the latter. Right after the law was passed in 2019, we went to meet with the Trump officials during the first Trump term about the federal process that was needed. And I think it is telling and revealing that at the time, this was something that people regarded as a procedural matter that could happen after other parts of the federal discussion were dispensed with.
LORENZO: Okay, so Justin, I wanted to ask you, this looks like this might go to court. So what would happen if this does go to court after the MTA filed their statements?
BALIK: So we heard the governor say yesterday that the MTA is already filing legal briefs to keep the program. And, it's going to be up to the judge to, I think, review the record and look at this process that was followed to get this program up and running. And I know the MTA and the state of New York are confident about the rigorous process they followed, and that this program does comport with what the value pricing pilot program is designed to do. So we are cautiously hopeful that it stands up in what are sure to be a series of court proceedings that kick off sooner versus later.
LORENZO: I just want to say thank you again so much for taking the time to speak with me today for our show Uptown Radio.
BALIK: All right. Thank you so much. Take care.
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